because up until that point I didn't
know anything about Amazon even though I
was working for a company in the Amazon
and just seeing what was possible and
the different speakers and the
networking that I did just completely
changed my trajectory I just dedicated
myself to learning everything I could
taking courses watching videos
networking and then I just became a
consultant you know I was like I didn't
I didn't really want to do my own
private label you know with helium tan
you guys have the ability to help people
determine you know how many products to
get a cell to rank it for different
keywords so do you mind you know maybe
you can transition a bit into helium ten
and how that can help sellers now what
do I have here I've got a list of words
and phrases all right so these phrases
are those ones that I put that I want to
happen phrase form as you see there's
different colors here basically it's
grouped by search volume so the red
that are searched for most and it goes
down in priority the other method is hey
they might be on par with everybody
there's my be even better
within the like hey I know there's
certain customers actually sort
sometimes I price and so I'm gonna make
sure I'm on the lower
hey everyone this is stephan james from
projectlifemastery.com in las vegas I'm
with Bradley Sutton who works with
helium 10 which is a software that
provides a suite of tools for Amazon
sellers to help them do product research
to help them find keywords for their
product to help them optimize their
Amazon listing incredible tool that
every Amazon seller needs but I want to
spend time today talking to you about
listing optimization because you've
launched and optimized over 400 products
on Amazon you have so much experience on
this that a lot of people might not have
so I want to dive into that today but
thanks for taking the time man thanks
for writing it gives you to finally meet
you in person yeah so how did you get
involved in Amazon because I know before
helium came you're doing consulting you
worked with a lot of Amazon seller so
how did how did this all come about for
you yeah I I had like 20 years ago I
started being entrepreneurs like when
fast and furious will came out and I
joined this Korean company who is
focusing on Korean cars and so I was
really into that so by made these
connections at that time with these
Korean gentlemen and we've stayed in
contact throughout the years and about
five six years ago they're like hey you
know we just started a cell phone case
you know cliche now but literally and
those days it was it was a lot different
than it is now a cell phone case company
were like we're gonna start selling on
Amazon would you like to join our
company so I was kind of like the the
name on the company because I was the
only American and I provided the
warehouse and everything they provided
that Amazon know-how and it was just
instantly successful I mean each SKU
they had like only six or seven SKUs
each queue was something like a thousand
years a day it's crazy was in the heyday
of you know when Amazon cell phone cases
just started taking off but they kind of
kept their information tight you know
even though I was a part owner of the
company they just had me do the
logistics side and things I really enjoy
was going on and they really didn't know
what they were doing either they got
completely lucky with these listings and
they just took off but what happened was
now all of a sudden companies like
spigen and you know case ology and
things like it they could see what they
were doing and they actually knew what
you know the right way to do Amazon so
they just copied what was working for
them and they just took off and then
that business won from a thousand units
persecutes at five hundred a day to 102
almost nothing companies split up I
really don't know what I wanted to I was
like not exactly inspired to go back to
the corporate world you know once you
have that taste of the of kind of being
your own boss it's kind of hard to go
back you know to working for the man
again
so I guess went to a conference like
like this one just on a whim I heard it
on a podcast I'm like you know what I'm
gonna go and it kind of changed my life
because up until that point I didn't
know anything about Amazon even though I
was working for a company on Amazon and
just seeing what was possible and the
different speakers and the networking
that I did it just completely changed my
trajectory I just dedicated myself to
learning everything I could taking
courses watching videos networking and
then I just became a consultant you know
I was like I didn't I didn't really want
to do my own private label I started
just working for those original guys
again they were like hey we saw that you
finally learn how to do it can you help
us you know so they hired me back kind
of as a consultant I was hired by other
companies and and there's I launched all
those products so that's kind of like my
history I I I went from you know not
knowing anything you do on Amazon and
just really dedicate myself to learning
thanks to a conference and then just
started helping other sellers yeah let
me ask you about I guess picking a
product because that's something that
you know a lot of people they're
watching this they're maybe at that
stage they're thinking about getting
started they're not sure what to sell
maybe they're going through amazing a
selling machine or a course like that
that's given them a criteria to help
them but what have you notice like what
are the things that people need to look
for cuz you can optimize a listing but
if there's no demand for it
you know you know or you're not getting
traffic to it's not gonna matter so I
guess before we get into the
optimization of a listing what should
people look for when deciding which
product that they're gonna sell on
Amazon so important you know I love Gary
Vee but but he talks a lot to
entrepreneurs and what they what he says
or influencers entrepreneurs or
influencers hey what should I do
he always will say which is a hundred
percent correct do what you're
passionate about what you know a lot
about is gonna give you a better chance
at being successful you know like if
you're into fashion you know make a
youtube channel about fashion alright
you know you're passionate about it it's
gonna it's gonna reflect but the thing
is you can't do that in Amazon it's a
different ballgame
I could be passionate about phone cases
right I could be the number one
in the world on film cases that does not
mean I'm gonna be successful Amazon as a
matter of fact I won't be because
cellphone case is now is such a
saturated market that it would be almost
impossible to scale a brand new business
that doesn't have a brand name so the
first thing I tell everyone is it's
great if the product that you are an
expert in or that you are passionate
about maybe there is opportunity all
you've just hit the Holy Grail right
there 95% chance that's probably not the
case you've got to go and find the
opportunity and it could be something a
keyword or a niche that you don't know
anything about but learn about it
because that's that's where the
opportunity is going to be you can't do
you can't be selfish when you're when
you're thinking about a new private
label so find the opportunity sure is
demand you know that's the other thing
is Amazon is not Kickstarter you know I
could have the most amazing thing
speaking of cell phone cases I could
have a cell phone case that maybe has a
laser pointer you know right maybe
amazing amazing product right you're not
gonna get sales on Amazon because nobody
is searching for a cell phone case with
laser pointer because they don't even
know it exists so you've got to have
make sure that there's demand either on
Amazon or off of Amazon for whatever
reason and you can't use Amazon it's
like a Kickstarter a crown crowdfunding
or to build it a minute yeah and usually
this that the research is so important
to know what people are searching for
and what's selling and looking at the
other products when you do a keyword
search or a category search and I I
agree with you too I think you know
ultimately if you can find it doesn't
have to be the product but maybe the
niche is something that because I always
tell people look big-picture - don't
just look at Amazon look at maybe can
you expand this on Shopify could you
create content on it can you find
influencers you know think bigger
picture but I think especially for the
first product or your when you're just
getting started you know go through the
learning curve and then once you get
confidence from that you know what to do
then you can go after a lot more
competitive spaces because you know what
it takes you you know you've studied it
you've got results from it and it gives
you the confidence to pursue more
competitive products absolutely so ok
let's talk a little bit about listening
so let's say someone has an Amazon
product they're maybe get some traffic
to it and everything how can you know
what are the most
elements I guess of a listing that
someone should focus on to get the
biggest return yeah you've got a look at
it at almost as like a two-pronged
effort you've got to make what we call
the machine happy amazon happy the
algorithm right like for example if
you're trying to use a keyword that
amazon doesn't even think has anything
to do with that category you're in it
doesn't matter you have that keyword
it'll soon you won't be you won't be
indexed or you won't even be searchable
for it so you do have to on one hand
make amazon happy but on the other hand
you've got to definitely have your
buyers in mind and and that's a big
thing I think so many sellers make that
mistake is they focus too much on Amazon
which is important you know relevancy to
Amazon is important but at the end of
the day it's not Amazon's algorithm that
decides whether your product is gonna be
bought or not it's the actual buyer
looking at it so you gotta find that
balance between the two know where to
put your most important keywords you
know I'm sure we're gonna talk about
that a little bit but there's a reason
why there's a certain kind of hierarchy
as far as a listing goes of where Amazon
puts priority you know where it gives
ranking juice I guess if you can call it
because you know in their studies that
they're like hey buyers who see the
title for example you know which is that
if somebody's gonna see text in in
Amazon listing it's probably that the
title you know like so obviously they're
gonna make that so important because
they know that might be the only thing
that the buyers actually read about the
product images of course is you know
super important right so the is again
all of this that I'm talking about gotta
find that balance between making amazon
happy making the butter so in other
words like a lot of people though just
here's a bunch of keywords and stuff it
in the title and that might rank maybe
for some of those keywords but a buyer
is gonna look at that and it's like this
a bunch of text and keywords it's not
readable it's not attractive it's not
compelling so you've got to find that
balance in terms I guess keyword
optimization because that's that's one
way people try to get traffic as they
rank it Amazon is a search engine so
have you found it's best to have the
keyword as early as possible in the
title like you're the first ones or the
position yeah there's there's you know a
few tricks that for those of you don't
know where there's what's called the
canonical URL and the canonical URL is
what's indexing Google and Bing and it's
like if you just have a regular you know
title what Amazon does is they'll take
random words from that title in any
order and then just that'll be in your
canonical URL so if any of you want to
know what that is just go to any Amazon
listing on a desktop browser if you look
at the top the actual address it'll say
amazon.com four words and it'll be like
five words for the - that's randomly
taken from the title and and then a
whole bunch you know the ace in a bunch
of other gibberish there so the key is
you can actually there's a trick that
it's working now it's worked for a few
years it could maybe not work you can
actually lock in that canonical URL by
making your first five words of your
title they have to be full words you
can't use like the or end or word so
Amazon doesn't like like best or
anything like it but if it's you've got
five words and then put a dash after it
Amazon after 24 hours will lock that
canonical in so then anytime actually
somebody clicks on your listing from off
of Amazon they're clicking on that
canonical URL but you're getting rank
juice for those keywords so the key is
like your most most important if you can
get like a five word phrase which is
kind of hard but at least one of the
three word phrases may be another
two-word phrase and somehow make it
again like you said you can't just like
throw words in there and put a dash
because somebody's gonna be like what is
this but if you did find a way to make a
five-word sentence that's actually
important keywords for your listening
and then put that dash and lock in your
canonical URL change back the title once
you is a permanent URL I guess it's it's
permanent but then if you change it
later
Amazon might go and randomize that
canonical so like once you lock in like
me personally I just keep it there
sometimes I've heard about that exact
thing like they change it afterwards and
and then Amazon just keeps that original
canonical URL as long as other words
haven't really changed in the title but
but that means that anybody clicks on
your listing outside of Amazon and then
it's like it's almost as if you search
it's the Amazon Amazon smite it's almost
as if the customers searched for that
keyword so the most important keyword I
would put right at the beginning of your
title but nowadays Amazon is saying hey
you need to put your brand name in the
beguine so that's that's a thing like
right now it's not locking it in it's
not automatic like you don't get
automatically suppressed if it's not but
they did say this was that Amazon boost
conference last year where they said hey
they're gonna start doing manual
checks and if they see that your brand
name is not the first word of your title
they might either suppress your listing
or actually go in there and make their
own title and that you can't even change
anymore so just know that you're running
the risk if you don't put your brand at
the beginning got it so have you having
the keyword in the the URL the title and
then also Amazon gives you the option to
add other keywords to your listing as
well
do you mind you know with people how can
they do keyword research I know there's
a manual way which could be pretty
gruesome and you guys have an awesome
software that helps them to give them
some of the research for them but I
guess what's that process typically to
find keywords if they know that they
want to sell a yoga mat let's say yeah
how would they find the keywords that
are best for them to rank and optimize
your product for yeah so what I'm going
to talk about regardless of whatever
tool you're using you know this is very
important so you don't don't zone out
just because you don't have helium 10
but you can definitely use this but it's
so important again as I said Amazon's
about existing demand and so don't try
and reinvent the wheel you know so if
you have searched for a product and done
great product research and there's
something that has demand there's
probably some sellers who are already
doing well okay so the first thing is
what I like to do is I like to identify
four or five of my most direct
competitors now here's an interesting
thing that I always teach I think people
don't realize like for example you type
in accordion right now on Amazon just
the word accordion
you're gonna have some like $500
professional accordions you're gonna
have like some $25.00 or kids accordions
they're all on the same page
that's that keyword accordion probably
is the main keyword for all of those but
here's the thing if I've got that $500
accordion that $25.00 accordion the the
kids wonder even it actually does if you
actually type it's the last I checked if
you type in accordion like there's a
$25.00 kids recording that has Amazon's
toys and best-seller vaginal net if I've
got the 500 professional cording I don't
even care what the heck keywords that
one is listening yes they're number one
on my page they are not my competitor
and I like shocks some people when I say
like I don't care if they're on the same
name that day the same main keyword that
is not your compare because here is what
happens when you buy a product on
like what's something that you search
for recently yoga mat yoga mat okay so
when you decided that you need a yoga
mat an image one in your mind like hey
this is the kind of yoga mat I want you
know I know some are ribs or some are a
certain material like you had an image
in your head now you can't you know we
don't have the technology yet of
transferring an image in our head to an
actual search I'm sure in like 20 years
who will have that right so what you did
was you had that image in your head and
then you to your best ability like made
it a keyword search yeah yo was it yoga
mat that you actually search for to
remember at first that but I'll be more
specific exactly good mat smooth or a
specific color yeah so you're trying to
put words to that image in your head and
so that's all the exact process that all
Amazon buyers use they have they have a
need and then when they got that need
they get an image in their head and then
they go to a computer or a phone and
they type that what that image is with
keywords and then now what they're
looking for is they're looking for a
result that goes back to that original
image in their head so the key is when I
I know it seems like we got off track
but really we have it is you need to
find the competitors that are most
similar to your product in other words
if people had searched for that keyword
and then they saw and they ended up
buying that other product they they're
the kind of customer who would have
bought yours so like a yoga mat a lot of
times you know what are some kinds of
like I don't know much about you I don't
know the brands but but like like like
types of like styles like for example
accordion I said hey those kids
accordions there's yeah I'm not a super
yoga mat expert but I just designs
colors I think those are yeah different
ways and then the other the texture of
the material the quality oh there's like
a foam it's like a thick foam one yeah
but then there's a kind of like really
fiddly thin ones so it different
practices that people have so it is such
a big market to that like you someone
might go general or broad in their
keyword search yeah then they're gonna
be more specific exactly because they're
just there are so many listings and and
so much demand that you know you don't
have to be on the first page just for
yoga man you can make you know 100k a
month just for like a longtail keyword
and and that's exactly so important what
you just said is people start broad and
then they narrow it down and that's the
thing that you got to find those narrow
down key words to also make sure that
you're picking the right competitor
because here's the thing somebody who
types in yoga mat they could be wanting
that thick foam or whatever material
that is or they could be the one that
wants a thin one that has some cool
trendy design or something right so the
thing is you have got to pick when you
pick your competitors that you're gonna
compare yourself or do keyword research
you've got to find the the products that
are most similar in price form function
everything's yours in other words hey
people who bought that product they
would have bought my product maybe if
they saw outside my side you know that's
not the case where the kids accordion
versus professional accordion so then
find five of those products five of
those products that are very you know
not worth their price at 80 in your
price at 20 because again that might be
a different kind of customer similar
price similar coloring maybe and then
what you do is see what say what the
keywords are driving their sales Amazon
does it make that public obviously and
you know we don't do any blackhat things
I know there's crazy things that people
do nowadays to figure out what that is
but it makes sense you you want to see
what words are driving their sales look
at the high search volume keywords that
they're on page one four all right
because the only way they can get on
page one and stay on page one is if
they're converting for those keywords so
what you do is you can use cerebro buy
helium 10 or whatever tool you might
have find one that you can enter in
their Aysen and then see hey what
keywords maybe are our search for at
least 500 times a month
are they on page one four because you
know that to get to page one it to stay
on page one they have to have convert it
and then guess what if that competitor
has a product so close to you those are
the keywords that could be they're
bringing sales for your compare they
could bring sales to you and so those
are my most like important keywords
right there makes sense where else would
you optimize your listing for the
keywords you put in the bullets the
description which ones obviously the
title has the most weight yes and then
uh you know the section where Amazon it
gives you the ability to add keywords
but description bullet points as well
yeah in 2019 you know maybe you're
watching this video
twenty-one or something could be
different so make sure to check but in
2019 the the weight ratio goes number
one title and number two is actually
surprising to me it's a search terms
which is your back end keywords that was
shocked that was like in 2018 I didn't
even know that and I thought it was
false I think it was Kevin King or
somebody I heard first a thousand nah so
is that when someone searches for a
certain keyword they find the product
Amazon is that they register that that's
how someone found it is that we're
talking yeah they do yeah but that
there's an actual field the search terms
um it's it's actually called search
terms and you're listening but nobody
knows it by there so is think of when
people say back-end search terms or
back-end keywords that's what they're
talking about the ones that are not
visible yes but Amazon actually will
recommend that you duplicate something
from like your title or something in
those back-end and in somebody who say
oh no no that Amazon says not to do that
well I had a friend who he was not
ranking very well it wasn't even ranking
top 300 for a certain keyword it wasn't
his title and so he opened up a case and
I was like Amazon I want to show up a
little bit earlier you know like I don't
even mean the top seven pages I'm Aiman
top 300 what is what should I do and the
Amazon rep actually at Aston was like
well do you have that search term also
in your back-end search terms or you're
searching but he's like no they're like
put it in so he put it in didn't do any
extra PPC didn't do a launch or giveaway
or anything
it went from unranked to like like 220
or 250 or so he's still he's not gonna
get any sales from there but that just
shows you how that field there is so
important that just by adding that
keywords that feel he was able to
increase in ranking so that's number two
number three is subject matter again
that's also in the backend it's not in
every category and it's not in Europe
currently but subject matter is another
back-end search term field that has the
number three imports number four is
bullet points and number five is the
description the front-end description
got it do they look at reviews at all
keywords the reviews or that is way back
and forth as far as if it's index or not
because now there's even if you want to
go like really high level there you know
if you put images you have metadata I
mean like so that's like you will have
to make a special high-end video just
for that but like there's a lot of
different things but as long as you get
those five things you you'll be good and
then if if for whatever reason a
reviews in or text and reviews 100,000%
is indexing google so which is also
important it's just not as consistent on
Amazon but but yeah got it okay and then
what about you know obviously the the
images are incredibly important a lot of
people might just by looking at the
image itself regardless of the title any
advice when it comes to just really high
quality product images obvious the main
one but also the other ones that you can
list as well
there's lifestyle images you know so
some categories are good for that you
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